OCTOBER 2007

This interview was given to the leading radical left-wing magazine of Sweden.

Question. You claim that anti-semitism doesn’t exist today. Can you explain what you mean by saying so?

Shamir: Antisemitism was a short-lived racial theory of late 19th century claiming that - like zebras are what they are, jews are what they are; that they possess some racial qualities making them an inherent enemy of the Nordic race, like a wolf is an enemy of a rabbit. This view was unknown previously, as the Church and the Ulema thought that the problem between Jews and Gentiles is a religious problem; conversion of a Jew into Christianity or Islam removed the problem. The racial view is quite out of fashion today; and I have never met a person who would consider jews being some race apart, dangerous to the rest.

Or, taking a less learned approach, antisemitism is presented as 'hatred of Jews for what they are'. Such a phenomenon vanished completely. There are people who object to policies of Jews, but none - to Jews per se.

That is why we can say that antisemitism disappeared after a very short shelf-life. Jews tend to use this word for perfectly legitimate, nay, commendable objection to their policies; for instance, to the policies of Israel etc, but then it is just an offensive label. 

Shamir: Illegal and criminal acts are exactly that, and the reasoning of the criminal is of little importance. Nobody is allowed to vandalise cemetories or beat up people, whether they are Jews or not. Do you think if a goy is beaten up, or a non-Jewish cemetery is vandalised - it is less grevious? Take Jews off your mind. If an act is criminal - then it is criminal, if it is not - then it is not criminal. There is no reason to assume that jews are special; that a beaten up Jew is a worse affront than a beaten up goy.  

You've asked: "If a young person with Jewish background living in Sweden who is not engaged in politics is beaten up by neo nazis or someone else. What do you call that? " I am not sure such events occur - more often than any sort of gang violence. In France, Jewish militants beat up anti-Zionists quite often, but I have not heard of non-fake case of French beating Jews. In New York, Jewish Defence League beats and kills goyim, and somehow nobody discusses 'Jewish hatred of Goy'. Indeed, criminal behaviour of miscreants is not a reason to build up case for 'antisemitism' or 'goy hatred' - police should just attend to criminals.
You've asked: "Doesn´t there exist violence and hatred towards Jews based on the fact that they are Jews, call it a race or call it an ethnicity or religion." The answer is NO. Not yet, but if good wishers would promote this idea ad nauseum they may succeed :-) As for hatred, it is such a mother-in-lawish word: "Son, I know you hate me and want me dead!" "No, mama, but I want us to control our lives ourselves".

Question: Do you believe that such a thing as a Jewish world conspiracy exists. If so, what’s the aim of this conspiracy?

Shamir: If the question is whether I believe in a millennia-old secret plan carried out by some hidden Jewish leaders the answer is no. Not many people do. Nor do I believe in existence of a hidden Jewish world leadership activating a single plan.

However, we may try to deconstruct the question in order to find some other levels to it. 

If there were a 'Jewish plan' - would it mean that all the Jews belong to the conspiracy? We use expressions "Sicilian mafia", "Communist plan of world revolution", "American imperialism", fully understanding that not every Sicilian, not every Communist, not every American is a member of some secretive body that tries to achieve this particular goal. Equally, 'Jewish conspiracy' would imply that there are some Jews who have certain plans.

"How the US provoked the Soviet Union into invading Afghanistan and starting the whole mess"
Le Nouvel Observateur (France), Jan 15-21, 1998,

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his
memoirs [From the Shadows], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan six months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to
the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army
invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, closely guarded until
now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President
Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the
pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the
president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Question: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

Brzezinski: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Question: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea.
It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, in substance: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Thus, conspiracies are a usual way of achieving some political purposes. When we demystify the expression 'Jewish conspiracy' in such a way, your question could be read: 'are there some secret plans and strategies carried out by some Jewish groups in their own interests'? Then. certainly, the answer is Yes; neocons are a group of (predominantly) Jews who plot and conspire for their own reasons; in the Shadow of Zog I've described another hidden plan carried out by some wealthy French Jews who wished to influence French media. In Prince Charming I present the Zionist conspiracy, which started with Weitzman and others offering the support of Jews to Balfour in exchange for the Declaration. 

As for an "all-Jewish world conspiracy", in my essay on the Protocols I prove that the concept of 'Jewish conspiracy' is not needed in order to understand Jewish influence. As a rule, Jews seek to make things better for Jews - but it is not a "conspiracy". There are non-conspiratorial actions which influence the world affairs. There are many Jews in world media; they have differing views, but they usually agree on certain things, for instance, they try to spike unfavourable to Jews news items. Majority of Jews are sympathetic to the US, dislike Christianity, prefer multiculturalism, support Israel - this is not a "conspiracy", but just their preference. 

Question: You have a Jewish background and you lost family members during the Nazi period. In what way does this affect your view on Judaism and Christianity?

Shamir: A man is influenced by his background. But the cult of holocaust wasn't a part of my background, for I grew in Soviet Russia. Every Russian family lost somebody at the World War Two; so I did not feel my case a special one.

Question: You have converted to Christianity. How does this fact influence your view on Judaism?

Shamir: In my view, Christianity is reformed, corrected Judaism, ideologically and theologically in permanent tension towards Rabbinic Judaism. I reject Judaism completely, and think it is a dangerous and troublesome ideology.

Question: In the present debate you are being accused of having opinions similar to those of the nazis during the 1930’s: i.e there’s a Jewish conspiracy, the Jews govern the world through controlling economy and moulding of public opinions. What’s your comment to that?

­

Shamir: My accusers do not mind to have the same opinion as George Bush, Ariel Sharon or Abe Foxman, great warriors against "antisemitism". In a way they are right - it does not matter who else has similar ideas. Foxman is against antisemitism, but it is still legitimate to be against antisemitism. Hitler was a vegetarian, but it is still legitimate to avoid meat. Every idea stands or falls at its own merit.

Question: You have also been accused of having contacts with neo nazis on the Internet. Your texts can be read on their web sites. How do you comment on that?

Shamir: My articles have appeared in the Israeli liberal daily Haaretz which is running Judeo-Nazi materials, for instance

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/489306.html

but somehow nobody objected to it...

Interview was taken by Raja Bahari